jenett | Useful idea!

Had a nice discussion with L2 last night, in which we did a lot of "Let's cover stuff you probably know at least half of, to make sure we're on the same page about what we're calling it".

One of the things we talked about, as part of some of my theories about community and what sustains it, was that I've got a really strong preference for yeast bread and wine or beer or mead for the cakes and ale portion of ritual - the idea being that they're foods that are specifically transformed by living beings.

And she noted that wouldn't that mean that some kind of yogurt or equivalent drink (kefir, for example) be a good option for someone who can't drink alcohol?

Which I think is brillant. Not that it's necessarily suitable for all uses, but it solves a particular problem very nicely.

(I'll note that I feel strongly that the bread and wine be part of the offering/food consumed by the priestess, if at all possible: I'm cheerfully willing to do juice, fruit, etc. to handle food allergies for everyone else. But this idea might make that a lot easier to do.)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

janetmiles

The group with which I celebrate Samhain every year uses different foods/drinks for cakes and ale depending on the details of the ritual, but never anything with alcohol. Often the ale is NA beer.

There's also the option for anyone in the ritual to tip out a bit onto the ground as an offering rather than drinking -- whether it's because they don't drink even NA beer, or because they have a cold and don't want to share, or for any other reason.

(This is mentioned only as a "this is how we/they do it", not with any implication that you should do the same thing.)

jenett

The alternates I've used (and which one depends on setting - pouring out on the floor is a great option outside, not so good inside)

- Having an alternate chalice (usually some sort of high-end and seasonal fruit juice - for Samhain, I'd likely do pomegranate juice, for example.)

- Having someone raise the chalice in blessing, and pass it back (useful if it's a one-time thing like a cold.)

- Pouring a little out in libation (if outside)

I plan for alternates or just plain don't use alcohol at public rituals (where I feel a lot less strongly about the 'transformed food' part of the equation than I do for trad-specific work)

For coven work, I expect to know about allergies and related issues, and I'm glad to provide alternates or figure out a workable solution based on specifics - but since it's a small number of people, that's pretty easy.

The one that drove me batty was a seeker with my prior group a few years ago who somehow managed to ignore the three times we said "Here's what we normally do, tell us in advance if you have allergies or need to avoid either bread or wine, so we can have something else on hand." (Both in terms of adding whatever the substitute is to the grocery list, and making sure both chalices are clean and ready to go.)

She showed up, and casually dropped in, about 3 minutes before ritual, that she was gluten-intolerant and couldn't drink alcohol. I sort of blinked and said, very mildly. "Oh, goodness. That's why we ask for this info earlier on, so we can have things ready to go. This close to ritual, it's impossible for us to make any changes to what we've got available. Here's what you can do instead. [Raise the chalice, etc.]" Because really, not my job to scramble and see if there's an apple in the house at that point.

It felt really weird, but also established a desire in me to make sure the people I work with are responsible about communicating their basic needs/things they can't do for themselves, given reasonable advance notice that it'll be useful.

bohemianeditor

Nice idea!

Yogurt wouldn't work for my particular group (one person is lactose intolerant), but I'm definitely stashing the idea for later. And probably trying kefir soon.

Also, we ask people who are sick or can't drink alcohol to kiss the chalice. If more than one person is doing that, somebody needs to keep an eye on the chalice and rotate it so that we're not all kissing the germy part, but it works pretty well.

finch

Hey, I liked your comments on

pagans. Doesn't look like I'll be sticking around over there, but I was wondering if you would mind if I friended you?

Edited Date: 2009-11-29 09:09 pm (UTC)

Given that I was just thinking the same about you (though I may continue to keep an eye on the comm), absolutely.

My profile has links to most of the useful backgroundy things that might be of use, but I also enjoy questions. (If you happen to ask something I can't answer for some reason - usually 'cause it touches on someone else's private info - I'll say so, and not be offended.)

Thanks. If it was just philosophical issues, I'd stick around, but when I know I'm going to get myself thoughtlessly banned, it just seems rude. ;) My journal is currently full of Nano, but that'll even out in a few days.

If you run into anything on my journal you have questions about, feel free to ask as well.

rainbow

(i peeked over here from woo, hi!)

water kefir is a great alternative for folks who can't have alcohol or dairy; only takes a day to prepare if you have the crystals, and you can use all sorts of fruit juices instead of water (including grape, if you want something close-ish to wine). kombucha is also good, but can take a couple weeks to ferment and is a bit more work.

Oh, excellent. I haven't tried making kefir myself yet (I buy it, currently), but I'll have to look into that.

beafuddle

I love all manner of yogurt drinks, so that sounds like a great idea!

Found your journal after reading a bit of community drama, and think you're quite well-spoken (or well-typed, as it were) and interesting. Hope you don't mind my subscribing.

Glad to have you! I should do an update on what's locked vs. not - I tend to lock things that have potentially identifying information about work, and recently, stuff that's medical info, for example, with more general stuff tending to be public.

Feel free to ask questions if you want more background about anything - I generally adore them, and if it's something I can't answer, or not right now, will say so without being offended.